MC-66089Explosion physics changed, range of some TNT cannons greatly reduced
The attached image shows the range of some common TNT cannons compared in the latest release and the latest snapshot. The cannon in which the TNT projectiles rest on a ladder has not changed. The other two cannons have the TNT resting on a slab and a fence, and their range has been reduced dramatically in the snapshot. These cannons each used three charges (TNT used to launch the projectiles) and the water in them was not moving, so no TNT was pushed by it in the snapshot.
It seems that the way blocks obstruct explosion energy has changed in such a way that slabs and fences obstruct much more of the blast than they are supposed to.
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Created Issue:
Explosion physics changed, range of some TNT cannons greatly reduced
The attached image shows the range of some common TNT cannons compared in the latest release and the latest snapshot. The cannon in which the TNT projectiles rest on a ladder has not changed. The other two cannons have the TNT resting on a slab and a fence, and their range has been reduced dramatically in the snapshot. These cannons each used three charges (TNT used to launch the projectiles) and the water in them was not moving, so no TNT was pushed by it in the snapshot.
It seems that the way blocks obstruct explosion energy has changed in such a way that slabs and fences obstruct much more of the blast than they are supposed to.
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![[Mojang] Searge (Michael Stoyke)](../../../data/assets/gravatar/searge.png){kind=small}
[Mojang] Searge (Michael Stoyke)
ok whatever this bug was, fixing it broke something with TNT, because the snapshot that this was fixed in, is where all this started: MC-66089
The blast power of TNT in 1.9 versions is buffed compared to previous versions such as 1.8.2 to 1.8.9 therefore making simple cannons overpowered in terms of range. It ruins the original blast power and distance of TNT cannons prior to 1.9 versions therefore causing confusion for cannoneers like me.
As can be seen in the pictures attached, the range of a a typical 3 charge cannon with a charge arrangement of 1-1-1 in 1.8.9 and below is 50 blocks. However in 1.9, the distance is increased by 60% compared to previous versions using the same cannon. The range of the cannon in 1.9 reached 80 blocks, 30 blocks more than 1.8.2 to 1.8.9.
For some of you, fixing this bug might not seem extremely important, yet there are servers that have been using TNT cannons for a long period of time and have accustomed to the using these cannons with their respective distances. I personally do not know if this is a bug or an intended change, but I very well know that this difference may cause many problems for TNT cannoneers like me who have been cannoning for more than 2 years. I sure do hope this bug can be fixed, or that the TNT blast power in 1.9 will be changed similar to previous versions in the past.
Below here is the test world for this experiment and pictures taken from the world are attached for reference.
UPDATE 3/31:
+Clarified cannon range between 1.8.0 and 1.8.2 to 1.8.9.
+Included cannon range and distance of versions 1.7.10 and 1.8.0.
+Added updated pictures that include versions 1.9, 1.8.2 to 1.8.9, 1.8.0, and 1.7.10.
I have now included the range and distance of the same TNT cannon in versions 1.8.0 and 1.7.10 in response to Kumasasa's comment. As can be seen in the picture, the range of cannons in versions 1.7.10 and below have the same range with cannons in 1.8.2 to 1.8.9 which is 50 blocks. In 1.8.0 however, the cannon blast power is reduced dramatically with the same cannon only firing 12 blocks. Therefore, this bug is unique or different to MC-66089.
Sincerely,
PJ
Please compare with 1.7.x. In 1.8.2 the range was changed / fixed, see MC-66089
The slab works as a full block rather than a half block, causing the blast to be (almost) 0. Can be demonstrated by blocking yourself off with slabs.
In 1.7(.10), blocking yourself with slab would make you get blown away (https://youtu.be/Ayj9F3_oZnM)
In 1.10(.2), blocking yourself with slab would make you only move about 0.5 blocks (https://youtu.be/oNwpruChhr4)
An evidence for this bug is when Mojang nerfed TNT in 1.8.0 and 1.8.1 compared to 1.7.10, Last Username made a bug report regarding this issue MC-66089 (The provided cannons had a ladder, fence, and slabs for mounting blocks, yet only the cannons with slabs and fences were affected). When Mojang "resolved the bug" in 1.8.2, only cannons with the fence as a mounting block were fixed (reverted back to 1.7.10 range). Cannons with slabs on the other hand were "un-nerfed", but were still weaker (1.8.2) compared to 1.7.10. TNT on 1.8.2 was supposed to act like 1.7.10 as TNT on slabs were supposed to act similarly between 1.7.10 and 1.8.2, but sadly it did not. An observation I have found is that TNT cannons using slabs fire shorter distances because TNT launched from slabs acts similarly to TNT launched from a full block.
Additional information:
Slab spread cannons work on 1.8.0 and 1.8.1 but are just weaker than 1.7.10. Whiskeys on the other hand are broken as described above. To reproduce the issue:
1. Create a standard slab spread cannon with 7x3 cannonball segment and 7x2 charge segment. In 1.8 and above, make sure that water an infinite source.
http://i.imgur.com/RtHGuJc.png
http://i.imgur.com/FPVbTkf.png
2. Fire cannon in 1.7.10 and 1.8.2.
3. Compare distances.
To confirm issue:
1. Create a standard whiskey cannon in 1.7.10 and 1.8.2 with slabs as the mounting block. http://i.imgur.com/gzxir0K.png
2. Fire cannon and compare distances.
To confirm that slab spread cannons work on 1.8.0/1.8.1:
1. Create a standard slab spread cannon with 7x3 cannonball segment and 7x2 charge segment. In 1.8 and above, make sure that water an infinite source.
http://i.imgur.com/RtHGuJc.png
http://i.imgur.com/FPVbTkf.png
2. Fire cannon in 1.7.10 and 1.8.0/1.8.1.
3. Compare distances.
This issue has nothing to do with "Explosion impulse on non-living entities is not attenuated by power, distance, or obstructions": MC-100260
Last Username said:
The problem with slabs is not caused by that patch as provided by him (https://github.com/OvercastNetwork/SportBukkit/blob/9de4c6e27928a02f534fae75b585c0b4c9d08824/CraftBukkit/0142-Fix-explosion-distance-and-occlusion-being-ignored-f.patch)(MC-100260). Removing the patch happens to make TNT go farther, but it also completely breaks the occlusion mechanic that was working up until 1.8.
UPDATE 10/19/2016
It is now possible to test and confirm this bug in future development snapshots after 16w41a now that MC-100260, another bug that this bug is dependent on, is now resolved. You may now test this bug from versions 1.8.2 to 1.8.9 and future 1.11+ versions/snapshots. You may use 1.7.10 as a reference for it is the newest versions without MC-107982 present.
https://github.com/OvercastNetwork/Issues/issues/2504
https://github.com/OvercastNetwork/SportBukkit/issues/206
Confirmed. UTTER OUTRAGE. OUTRAGE!
Just confirmed that this started happening in 14w31a, was still fine in 14w30c
Confirmed in 14w34b
This is the cannon I'm using to test this. Since people's first response is usually "this has something to do with the water flowing pushing TNT changes doesn't it?" NO, IT DOESN'T. TNT EXPLOSION PHYSICS HAVE COMPLETELY CHANGED TOO. This cannon is setup to have water source blocks, and is simple to build:
http://i.imgur.com/VUO45Jt.png
Loaded: http://i.imgur.com/28R0smo.png
You can try this in 1.7.10, or in 14w30c and earlier and it shoots like normal, like it always has. This starts happening in 14w31a.
Almost definitely probably related to
MC-53215getting fixed in 14w31a.Confirmed in release 1.8
Confirmed still in 1.8.1-pre3
I can confirm for wooden trapdoors. See the attachments. The hole closer to the cannon is the 1.8 range. The hole farther is the 1.7 range. The 1.7 hole is larger due to two shots being fired.
Confirmed in 1.8.1-pre4
Confirmed in 1.8.1-pre5
That would be awesome, thanks Searge !
Tested in 1.8.2 pre1 but the bug is still exist. Strange...
Can anyone else confirm that this has not been Fixed?
This is Fixed for me. Explosions physics are back to how they were in 1.7.x.
not fixed at all . 99.99% of all tnt cannons broken. they work in 1.7 they break in 1.8.... the system before made seriously cool and complex cannon possible this pretty much throws cannon tech back into the middle age 1.12 by now btw