MCPE-78840Instant despawn radius for simulation distance = 4 is too short
The 1.16.0.61 beta introduces scaled instant despawn radius based on simulation distance. The radii for simulation distances 6 and 8 appear to be consistent with the forumula
(simulation_distance * 16) - 10
so that the instant despawn radius for sim 8 is 118, and the instant despawn radius for sim 6 is 86. This is consistent with the previous instant despawn radius since 1.16.0.51 beta being 54 based on the minimum simulation distance of 4. However, in 1.16.0.61, the instant despawn radius for sim 4 is 44 instead of 54. This appears to be a typo because it is inconsistent with the others, and because it causes mobs to be instantly despawned after they are spawned between r44 and r54.
Steps to reproduce
1. Set world simulation distance to 4
2. Allow a mob to spawn naturally and do not interact with it.
3. Move 44 blocks away from the mob.
Expected result
The mob stays in existence.
Actual result
The mob instantly despawns.
The attached test world contains a non-persistent creeper trapped at 0, 110, 0, and colored glass at Z = 44, 54, 86, and 118 to facilitate testing different instant despawn radii. Change the simulation distance of the world before opening it to test a particular distance.
Linked Issues
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Created Issue:
Instant despawn radius for simulation distance = 4 is too short
The 1.16.0.61 beta introduces scaled instant despawn radius based on simulation distance.
The radii for simulation distances 6 and 8 appear to be consistent with the forumula
(simulation_distance * 16) - 10
so that the instant despawn radius for sim 8 is 118, and the instant despawn radius for sim 6 is 86. This is consistent with the previous instant despawn radius since 1.16.0.51 beta being 54 based on the minimum simulation distance of 4. However, in 1.16.0.61, the instant despawn radius for sim 4 is 44 instead of 54. This appears to be a typo because it is inconsistent, with the others, and because it causes mobs to be instantly despawned after they are spawned between r44 and r54.Steps to reproduce
1. Set world simulation distance to 4
2. Allow a mob to spawn naturally and do not interact with it.
3. Move 44 blocks away from the mob.Expected result
The mob stays in existence.Actual result
The mob instantly despawns.The attached test world contains a non-persistent creeper trapped at 0, 110, 0, and colored glass at Z = 44, 54, 86, and 118 to facilitate testing different instant despawn radii. Change the simulation distance of the world before opening it to test a particular distance.
The 1.16.0.61 beta introduces scaled instant despawn radius based on simulation distance.
The radii for simulation distances 6 and 8 appear to be consistent with the forumula
(simulation_distance * 16) - 10
so that the instant despawn radius for sim 8 is 118, and the instant despawn radius for sim 6 is 86. This is consistent with the previous instant despawn radius since 1.16.0.51 beta being 54 based on the minimum simulation distance of 4. However, in 1.16.0.61, the instant despawn radius for sim 4 is 44 instead of 54. This appears to be a typo because it is inconsistent, with the others, and because it causes mobs to be instantly despawned after they are spawned between r44 and r54.Steps to reproduce
1. Set world simulation distance to 4
2. Allow a mob to spawn naturally and do not interact with it.
3. Move 44 blocks away from the mob.Expected result
The mob stays in existence.Actual result
The mob instantly despawns.The attached test world contains a non-persistent creeper trapped at 0, 110, 0, and colored glass at Z = 44, 54, 86, and 118 to facilitate testing different instant despawn radii. Change the simulation distance of the world before opening it to test a particular distance.
The 1.16.0.61 beta introduces scaled instant despawn radius based on simulation distance.
The radii for simulation distances 6 and 8 appear to be consistent with the forumula(simulation_distance * 16) - 10
so that the instant despawn radius for sim 8 is 118, and the instant despawn radius for sim 6 is 86. This is consistent with the previous instant despawn radius since 1.16.0.51 beta being 54 based on the minimum simulation distance of 4. However, in 1.16.0.61, the instant despawn radius for sim 4 is 44 instead of 54. This appears to be a typo because it is inconsistent, with the others, and because it causes mobs to be instantly despawned after they are spawned between r44 and r54.
Steps to reproduce
1. Set world simulation distance to 4
2. Allow a mob to spawn naturally and do not interact with it.
3. Move 44 blocks away from the mob.Expected result
The mob stays in existence.Actual result
The mob instantly despawns.The attached test world contains a non-persistent creeper trapped at 0, 110, 0, and colored glass at Z = 44, 54, 86, and 118 to facilitate testing different instant despawn radii. Change the simulation distance of the world before opening it to test a particular distance.
The 1.16.0.61 beta introduces scaled instant despawn radius based on simulation distance.
The radii for simulation distances 6 and 8 appear to be consistent with the forumula(simulation_distance * 16) - 10
so that the instant despawn radius for sim 8 is 118, and the instant despawn radius for sim 6 is 86. This is consistent with the previous instant despawn radius since 1.16.0.51 beta being 54 based on the minimum simulation distance of 4. However, in 1.16.0.61, the instant despawn radius for sim 4 is 44 instead of 54. This appears to be a typo because it is inconsistent
,with the others, and because it causes mobs to be instantly despawned after they are spawned between r44 and r54.Steps to reproduce
1. Set world simulation distance to 4
2. Allow a mob to spawn naturally and do not interact with it.
3. Move 44 blocks away from the mob.Expected result
The mob stays in existence.Actual result
The mob instantly despawns.The attached test world contains a non-persistent creeper trapped at 0, 110, 0, and colored glass at Z = 44, 54, 86, and 118 to facilitate testing different instant despawn radii. Change the simulation distance of the world before opening it to test a particular distance.
![[Mod] OcelotOnesie](../../../data/avatars/users/43220.png){kind=small}
The 1.16.0.61 beta introduces scaled instant despawn radius based on simulation distance.
The radii for simulation distances 6 and 8 appear to be consistent with the forumula(simulation_distance * 16) - 10
so that the instant despawn radius for sim 8 is 118, and the instant despawn radius for sim 6 is 86. This is consistent with the previous instant despawn radius since 1.16.0.51 beta being 54 based on the minimum simulation distance of 4. However, in 1.16.0.61, the instant despawn radius for sim 4 is 44 instead of 54. This appears to be a typo because it is inconsistent with the others, and because it causes mobs to be instantly despawned after they are spawned between r44 and r54.
Steps to reproduce
1. Set world simulation distance to 4
2. Allow a mob to spawn naturally and do not interact with it.
3. Move 44 blocks away from the mob.Expected result
The mob stays in existence.Actual result
The mob instantly despawns.The attached test world contains a non-persistent creeper trapped at 0, 110, 0, and colored glass at Z = 44, 54, 86, and 118 to facilitate testing different instant despawn radii. Change the simulation distance of the world before opening it to test a particular distance.
The 1.16.0.61 beta introduces scaled instant despawn radius based on simulation distance. The radii for simulation distances 6 and 8 appear to be consistent with the forumula
(simulation_distance * 16) - 10
so that the instant despawn radius for sim 8 is 118, and the instant despawn radius for sim 6 is 86. This is consistent with the previous instant despawn radius since 1.16.0.51 beta being 54 based on the minimum simulation distance of 4. However, in 1.16.0.61, the instant despawn radius for sim 4 is 44 instead of 54. This appears to be a typo because it is inconsistent with the others, and because it causes mobs to be instantly despawned after they are spawned between r44 and r54.
Steps to reproduce
1. Set world simulation distance to 4
2. Allow a mob to spawn naturally and do not interact with it.
3. Move 44 blocks away from the mob.Expected result
The mob stays in existence.Actual result
The mob instantly despawns.The attached test world contains a non-persistent creeper trapped at 0, 110, 0, and colored glass at Z = 44, 54, 86, and 118 to facilitate testing different instant despawn radii. Change the simulation distance of the world before opening it to test a particular distance.
Screenshot from 2020-05-17 21-07-47.png
![[Mojang] Mega_Spud (Jay Wells)](../../../data/avatars/users/92696.png){kind=small}
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The 1.16.0.61 beta introduced scaled instant despawn distances based on a world's simulation distance setting. For simulation distance 4 the instant despawn radius was reduced from 54 blocks (the previous radius since 1.16.0.51 beta) to 44 blocks, presumably in order to ensure that non-persistent mobs are never saved in unloaded chunks (since MCPE-78840 is WAI). However, the spawning area still extends to 54 blocks from the player. This results in spawns between r44 and r54 being immediately despawned. This wastes processing power in an endless loop of pointless activity, and it is also visually unpleasant.
Steps to reproduce
- Set simulation distance to 4 and turn on mob spawning.
- Stand in a flat area.
- Look toward the distance.
Expected result
You see mobs spawn and wander around, only disappearing when they wander away from you. Beyond the line where wandering mobs disappear, you see no mobs at all.
Actual result
Beyond the line where wandering mobs disappear, you regularly see new mobs appear then immediately disappear.
Thank you for your report!
We're tracking this issue as MCPE-78840, so this ticket is being resolved and linked as a duplicate.
That ticket has already been resolved as working as intended, which means this is not considered a bug and won't be fixed. Please do not leave a comment on the linked ticket.
If you haven't already, you might like to make use of the search feature to see if the issue has already been mentioned.
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Thank you for your report!
We're tracking this issue as MCPE-78840, so this ticket is being resolved and linked as a duplicate.
That ticket has already been resolved as working as intended, which means this is not considered a bug and won't be fixed. Please do not leave a comment on the linked ticket.
If you haven't already, you might like to make use of the search feature to see if the issue has already been mentioned.
Quick Links:
📓 Issue Guidelines – 💬 Community Support – 📧 Customer Support – ✍️ Feedback and Suggestions – 📖 Game Wiki
Thank you for your report!
We're tracking this issue as MCPE-78840, so this ticket is being resolved and linked as a duplicate.
That ticket has already been resolved as working as intended, which means this is not considered a bug and won't be fixed. Please do not leave a comment on the linked ticket.
If you haven't already, you might like to make use of the search feature to see if the issue has already been mentioned.
Quick Links:
📓 Issue Guidelines – 💬 Community Support – 📧 Customer Support – ✍️ Feedback and Suggestions – 📖 Game Wiki
I believe that this is partially intended. In previous versions of Minecraft, it was common for the cave monster cap to be filled almost all the time (MCPE-21856). In the overworld monsters would be hidden in small, inaccessible caves. In the nether zombie pigmen on remote or inaccessible platforms would fill the cap. The chance of this happening would increase as you spent time in an area. With the new despawning system in 1.16, the hidden and inaccessible monsters are now able to despawn regularly, so new ones can spawn in other places. You are supposed to encounter monsters regularly unless you have worked to spawn-proof an area.
What I think is not intended are the following ramifications of the extremely small 44-block despawn radius on simulation distance 4:
- Mobs effectively respawn an average of 12.8% (5 blocks) closer to the player.
- The volume of the viable spawning region (where mobs won't instantly despawn) is more than 50% smaller than it was in 1.14 and earlier, so mobs end up packed together that much more densely.
Now unfortunately, in the 1.16.20.50 beta, this 50% reduction to the viable mob zone, which was implemented in sim4 via depsawning in 1.16.0, is applied to every simulation distance via reduction of the spawning radius. Numerous other problems with this scheme have been raised, and possible solutions suggested, already in MCPE-65570, MCPE-78840, MCPE-79359.
@Draco894 while I don't have access to the code or Mojang's internal discussions, I think I can answer some of your questions based on knowledge gained from playing the game and testing these things.
- Command block + ticking area despawn systems work because chunks that have been simulated since the last reload of a world remain in RAM even though they are not ticked. This allows the mobs in those chunks to be targeted by commands. These systems can't be 100% reliable because mobs in chunks that have not been simulated since the last reload of the world will not be found by commands. Hard-coded despawning needs to be 100% reliable.
- The reason for r44 was confirmed with the resolution of
MCPE-78840: it is the maximum horizontal radius that can guarantee non-persistent mobs will never escape despawning and end up saved in non-simulated chunks. - There is no active "chunk unloading process" in which the game can do anything. Mobs used to be "saved" in "unloaded" chunks as a passive consequence of simply being located in chunks that were no longer simulated. Intentional despawning, therefore, has to happen within simulation distance, in chunks that are being ticked, and as part of the ticking process.
What could be done to re-enable the r54 effective spawn area and give sim4 an r54 (or 55 or 56) viable mob area, would be to base the radius on the horizontal center of the chunk in which the player is located instead of the exact player position. That would mean the horizontal despawn radius from the player would vary between 44 and 64 on sim4, depending on the player's relative position in a chunk. I don't see any problem with that, especially since the simulation_edge despawning that has been applied to higher sim distances already causes greater horizontal variance (on sim6 the horizontal despawn distance varies between 45 and 95). Moreover, expanding sim4 effective spawning back to r54 in this way would do a lot to help with both the present bug and the monster spawning density issues raised in MCPE-65762.
Here are three picture showing the despawn locations and ticking areas for sim distances of 4, 6, and 8. The player is standing at 0,0. Clearly there is an inconsistency with the scaling.
Can confirm, I made a video testing all of the despawning ranges: https://youtu.be/vZCa7KcjT6I
While we are on the subject of despawning, I want to suggest a slight change in how despawning happens.
1) The beta documentation lists "despawn_from_simulation_edge" as a data-driven configuration option for mob despawning. I assume that this is supposed to despawn any mob that walks outside of simulation range or is in a chunk when it is taken out of simulation range. This would be a good thing. If this can be fully implemented and enabled for mobs, then I suggest that the despawning range be scaled to 16*simulation_distance, with 128 as the max. This would provide parity with Java Edition at simulation distance 8.
2) Scale the spawning distance to 16*simulation_distance-10, with 118 as the max. This would allow any mob to move 10 blocks away from a player before they instantly despawn, regardless of simulation distance.
Pretty sure this is a WAI change in the recent beta. A 44 block instant despawn range would make it so if you're in the corner of the center chunk the entire thing is still completely within the sim distance (54 extends into unloaded chunks if you're in the corner).
The despawn is WAI, perhaps. However, this bug highlights the inconsistency in the different sim distances. It does not scale consistently.
@silentwisperer If r44 is intended for sim 4 for the reason you suggest, then the values for sim 6 and sim 8 should be 66 and 88 rather than 86 and 118.
To be clear. Only on sim-distance 4 does the despawn radius not extend into unloaded chunks. On sim-distances 6 and 8, it extends into unloaded chunks. The other reason why I think it is a typo (44 instead of 54) is because the spawn radius is still 54 in the beta, so lots of things are spawning and instantly despawning at sim-distance 4, which would be inefficient game design.
To add in, current ranges I tested are:
4 - 44
6 - 81
8 - 113
10 & 12 - 128
Except the 128 the other numbers seem very random.
@GoldenHelmet yes, that would be a reasonable expectation for the higher sim-distances. My assumption would be that it simply hasn't been added for the higher sim ranges. Who knows! Would be lovely hear from the devs on this one. No real information about this, and no information about the changes in the change log is causing a lot of confusion on this topic!
@MaybeJNaz there seems to be a formula to the sim distances:
((simulation distance)x16)-10
Although the formula doesn't actually appear anywhere, the devs may have used this as a guide to figure out the distances, and then they hard-coded them in. This explains why there would be an error, as all the others except sim distance 4 seem to loosely follow this, as all your numbers are relatively close to the numbers that this formula gives.
Here is another view of the issue. Currently in the beta, on simulation distance 4, only the blocks between 24 and 44 distance of a player can spawn mobs (shaded region). This clearly too small, and the majority of a ticking area is lifeless.
The spawning area is much larger in 1.14, and the ticking area has more mobs in it.
I’ve watched MaybeJNaz’s video and his method seems to be rigorous, perhaps moreso than the tests I was relying on. His numbers for sim 6 and 8 are consistent with
So this may be the formula for higher sim distances, but even with this formula r44 for sim 4 is inconsistently short. Also the problem of some spawns being instantly despawned would remain if this formula was applied to sim 4.
On Windows 10 Bedrock v. 1.16.0.61 Beta, zombie villagers are de-spawning 52 blocks away from the player. The Simulation distance is set at 12. I captured a zombie villager, and I went to get the potion which is 52 blocks away from the zombie villager's capture area. When I returned, the zombie villager de-spawned. This happened multiple times, so I moved the potions to capture area. The next time I caught a zombie villager, I splashed him with the potion. This time everything worked like previous versions. It appears the Simulation distance does not matter.
Thank you for your report!
However, this issue has been closed as Working as Intended.
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I am confused. How can mobs spawning and instantly despawning be marked as Working As Intended?
That is what happens in java so....
An explanation for such a big change would be nice, considering how much of an impact it will have.
@gruva They randomly despawn (which also happens in Bedrock), but not spawn and instantly despawn.
When spawning and instantly despawning, the player never gets to interact with the mob.
Whereas in the random despawn range, which is from 32 radius up until the instant despawn radius, mobs exist for a reason.
@Gruva That's not what happens on Java, just like was added to Bedrock in Java mobs have a 1/800 chance to despawn each tick, mobs in Java farther than 44 blocks do not spawn to immediately despawn each and every time.
My point was that the spawning in java happens all over the place within the loaded area around a player but mobs outside 128 blocks despawn instantly (in java). 64 to 128 they're just immobile. I'm not saying this is good for bedrock as the distance of 44 blocks is painfully small but it is a similar set up as java, at least what I can see of it currently. This is why I'd assume it's WAI.
Can someone with access to the 1.16 beta code confirm that this is the difference between distance 4 and distance 6? I'm trying to understand how despawn_from_simulation edge works and interacts with realms or doesn't. Below is my best guess from testing and this thread.
Sim Distance 4 (realms)?
Sim Distance 6 (not realms)?
Note that (at least in 1.14) the game will attempt to spawn mobs in all simulated chunks whose centers that are withing 96 blocks of the player, horizontally. However, the spawning will fail if the mobs are beyond r=54 of the player.
It makes sense for r128 to have a chance of despawn at certain range since the area is very large with more than 4x mob cap. TBH, 4 chunk never need 1/xxx chance of despawning since it falls within range, keeping mobs actively near the player in small area. They will be most likely insta-despawn when move away in seconds to a few minutes after they spawned. That said having despawn by chance is useless for 4 chunk simulation distance. It only need instant despawn and spawn range from the player.
Why mark something that is working as Intended, this is something that is an issue and seems like there is now more problems instead of fixing the issues they rather just push it to the side, spawning and despawning is a huge put of the game, I’m only going off what I have seen by silentwisperers video of it, but it definitely isn’t working as intended, anyways I think the new despawning and spawning should be push into another update and get a fully working system then releasing a buggy system of it and keeps breaking,
If this "Works As Intended" then perhaps we could revisit the intentions. Many people would be voting up this bug if it were still possible.
Keep in mind the Works As Intended resolution addresses the primary subject of this ticket, that the instant despawn at sim4 was reduced to r44. It does not address every possible unforeseen ramification of that change.
MCPE-79359focuses on one consequence that seems to call for further tweaking, which is beyond the scope of the original intention behind r44. You may wish to follow up with that ticket if you have information to add, and vote there to show your interest.